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Post by Farraige on Jan 16, 2016 12:09:45 GMT -6
... wow, a long-time poster deleted their account a few days after an argument in the Melody thread. o____O
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 16, 2016 15:20:25 GMT -6
I did notice that a long time member disappeared! Were they in that discussion?
I hope they're okay, it seemed weird that they disappeared.
There does seem to kind of be a… before the French Revolution sort of air going on over there, I suppose; some loud silences and awkwardnesses.
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Post by Farraige on Jan 16, 2016 15:51:11 GMT -6
Yeah, they were. There was kind of an argument going down in the Melody thread re: how people wanted to modify/not modify the character. That's what I'm guessing is going on.
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Post by wieselein on Jan 16, 2016 18:24:41 GMT -6
Being cautious because not sure who is reading-- but yeah... I am not happy with a lot of stuff in 't Other Place. I feel like a lot of people, myself included, cannot state our opinions about things because we will be smacked down by the moderators. The person so opposed to modifying Melody owns a modern Kaya. I don't really see how it's all that different. I just don't.
There are many things that I leave unspoken there, because I am pretty damn sure that someone is just looking for an excuse -- any excuse -- to ban me. The reason comes down to personal dislike, too, not to what I have actually done and/or said.
The lecture I received about the kyriarchy was particularly upsetting. A key factor in the idea of kyriarchy is that while (just about) everyone has privilege over other people in some settings, no one has it in all settings. And the person delivering the lecture to me clearly out-earns me (or at least outspends me), and can pass as hetero, socially, which I can't.
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 16, 2016 18:44:52 GMT -6
Oh wow, I hadn't noticed because they weren't even one of the people who said that they wanted to modify Melody, just that they were uncomfortable with other people saying it couldn't be done at all, ever. Being upset with someone saying that that no one can ever modify a particular historical character, ever, no matter how they do it, seems sensible to me. Being upset that someone has the actual authority to stop people from expressing opposing viewpoints and uses it is also understandable to me. The two combining being too much? I do understand why she left.
I'd say it's not quite as bad as everyone's sexuality is highly protected except for yours, kinky people, but even that seemed to make sense before it was pointed out that using profanity is enough to break the TOS there. Hmm.
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 16, 2016 18:56:16 GMT -6
I've been uncomfortable lately there about how it would feel to have Lea's phenotypes, or to have had the same but with blonde hair at ten that's darkened since, and read the comments on the doll. It would hurt, it seems. I don't know how to say this there and not get banned. Granted, I didn't know how to explain things being said about my sexual orientation hurt me personally without almost getting banned.
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 16, 2016 19:21:21 GMT -6
It didn't seem like it was quite so... severe when that board first started? I like being there and want to stay even though I am very aware I'm only welcome somewhat and can only somewhat be myself. I mean, I'll take it. Better being allowed to be around and keep quiet than being completely unwelcome because I don't always completely agree with everything the person who runs things says.
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Post by wieselein on Jan 16, 2016 20:16:55 GMT -6
It didn't seem like it was quite so... severe when that board first started? I like being there and want to stay even though I am very aware I'm only welcome somewhat and can only somewhat be myself. I mean, I'll take it. Better being allowed to be around and keep quiet than being completely unwelcome because I don't always completely agree with everything the person who runs things says. Yeah... This is a large part of why I haven't been very active there lately. I don't feel completely able to be myself-- and unlike you, I am not good at figuring out when to self-censor. Whenever I post there I can feel the ban hammer hanging over my head and it freaks me out. |
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Post by Farraige on Jan 16, 2016 23:14:16 GMT -6
Yeah, I kind of facepalm at some of the things that are being said there. I tend to try to be as diplomatic as possible, because I do *not* want to start drama. My default reaction is to try to be sympathetic to both sides unless it's something that I'll never support (ie, Donald Trump or something), because I hate being attacked and I have delayed emotional responses anyway, so it takes me a while to properly process difficult emotions.
I can understand why both of you are quieter there than you used to be. I miss seeing you both around more, but... argh. I can understand why some people might be upset about Melody, but I can also understand why some collectors may modernise her because it fits into their theme.
And yes, privilege and oppression intersect with each other. It's not just about one specific thing and I get exasperated when people act as though it is.
The Lea comments are weird. I don't get why they have to insult how the doll herself looks when they're criticising the real problem of the GOTY line not being very racially diverse. I've ordered her. :/
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Post by pantalaimon on Jan 18, 2016 7:34:32 GMT -6
if the person who left is the one who triggered me and who nobody gave a shit when it happened then i'm glad. this person made me feel very ill whenever i would see the username, and quite frankly i'm still upset that nothing was done...yet a well-liked member was excluded from the community automatically. if it's not the person, then disregard my comment.
regarding melody, nobody said they could not modify her. we (I include myself in that) only said it would be upsetting. i really don't understand why it's taken personally? nobody said, if you modify melody you are a very bad person. if it were the case, then I'd understand why the person left. and if me talking openly for the first time about some racist experiences from my childhood makes people uncomfortable...idk what to say man. sorry that my life isn't rainbows and unicorns. i did make a subtle comment about a certain member, but honestly i dont care about them because they're ableist and don't care when they're told something is upsetting. i'm most likely not well-liked because of that reason but im used to this all of my life.
sorry for sounding like a raging asshole right now, but sometimes when we talk about shit like ableism or racism, privileged folk take it personally because they don't like to be reminded they are privileged, no matter how politely you tell them it has nothing to do with them personally. and usually i'm very quiet, i don't speak up. and also im upset because 3 of yous are not there anymore or not much and i liked it there when yall were there.
i did notice the tension.
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 18, 2016 9:53:24 GMT -6
No dude, it's not that person and this is about power dynamics and the one person who has all the power indirectly telling everyone that they can not modify their doll's story whether or not they include the actual history in their story. People did say people could not modify her, but they didn't use direct language that openly stated that, ya get me?
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Post by pantalaimon on Jan 18, 2016 9:56:18 GMT -6
ah. maybe I didn't catch it? i can't "read between the lines".
if the language indeed implied "do not modify melody" then i apologise and retract my comment about it. that's not cool.
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 18, 2016 10:04:45 GMT -6
At any given time, with anything, I could be completely wrong, but yes, that's what I got from reading it. Other people seem to have gotten that impression as well.
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Post by pantalaimon on Jan 18, 2016 10:16:48 GMT -6
I feel like I miss a lot of...what most people notice? like I tend to read what someone posts and take that as is, and not think about the...real meanings behind it? idk if I make sense. I don't want people to feel bad about their collecting, I know it seems hard to believe with all of the comments I make but I genuinely don't. I do get what you mean about power dynamics.
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Post by pantalaimon on Jan 18, 2016 10:41:23 GMT -6
It didn't seem like it was quite so... severe when that board first started? I like being there and want to stay even though I am very aware I'm only welcome somewhat and can only somewhat be myself. I mean, I'll take it. Better being allowed to be around and keep quiet than being completely unwelcome because I don't always completely agree with everything the person who runs things says. i remember the rules and it says nobody should feel excluded for their sexuality. i don't understand and am confused. no one should feel horrible about who they are. it says in the rules. maybe i'm just naive. why can't they make a private 18+ section. sorry, i don't like that people cannot be themselves because i live it. if you were to comment about the lea thing, i would back you. my comment about feeling disgusting was towards AG not the doll necessarily. what comments are y'all referring to? the doll is pretty. i just don't understand why she couldn't have been full latina. |
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 18, 2016 11:20:37 GMT -6
Yeah, that makes sense and I would have a hard time picturing you specifically wanting people to feel bad about their collecting.
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Post by RoselaTouche on Jan 18, 2016 11:37:33 GMT -6
I think they probably literally can't make a private 18+ section without a huge amount of work. Why my sexual orientations are not to be discussed in front of teenagers while other alt dynamics are? That's another story.
It's the uhm... kind of racist-y comments that bother me about Lea, honestly. I've read lots of people describe actually on that board how much it hurt them for people to minimize their ethnicity because they passed as white so reading about her being "fake bake" or really any other comment that heavily implies that real people of color can't have light hair as children or adults is kind of painful. I do understand that hair can give passing privilege or otherwise generally increase privilege and I do understand that they made the character 7/8 white but the comments about her skin colour started before that info was even released and never stopped.
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Post by Farraige on Jan 18, 2016 18:33:13 GMT -6
Pan, you are definitely not a raging asshole. ❤️ And, yeah, the commentary on both Melody and Lea is kind of...enh. I admit to having been snarky about Lea, but that was less about her actual appearance and more about AG not actually coming out with a doll that wasn't mostly white, especially after the PR issues they've been having about diversity since the retirement of Cécile and Ivy. She's a pretty doll and I ended up ordering her to change into an original character. Also, who was the user who was triggering and that nobody cared about their effects on you? Feel free to PM me about it, so I know to keep my eye out for them.
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Post by wieselein on Jan 19, 2016 12:26:55 GMT -6
Can you tell me who that person was, too, Pan? I kind of have a personal rule that no one is allowed to mess with you, ever. I'm not around at the other place as much so I don't see what's going on some of the time. But yeah, if someone gives you trouble, shoot me a PM.
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Post by Farraige on Jan 30, 2016 6:05:12 GMT -6
Related to my original topic: it's weird that some people on this thread have experienced pushback, but there's a poster there who hasn't been called out at all for managing to have a collection of 30+ dolls that is basically all white, despite a lot of protests about it in threads.
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